Comments on: Lessons Learned from Neogeography Applied to GIS http://highearthorbit.com/lessons-learned-from-neogeography-applied-to-gis/ Transmitting ideas, observations, and images from 42,000 km. Mon, 15 Mar 2010 20:16:11 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9-rare hourly 1 By: Andrew http://highearthorbit.com/lessons-learned-from-neogeography-applied-to-gis/comment-page-1/#comment-232226 Andrew Mon, 09 Mar 2009 13:35:33 +0000 http://highearthorbit.com/lessons-learned-from-neogeography-applied-to-gis/#comment-232226 @Terry - indeed this was part of the presentation. ArcGIS produces terrible looking maps. Most modern cartographers I've talked with may use it to start, but then quickly move to InDesign to do the real styling and design for their maps. @Terry – indeed this was part of the presentation. ArcGIS produces terrible looking maps. Most modern cartographers I’ve talked with may use it to start, but then quickly move to InDesign to do the real styling and design for their maps.

]]> By: Terry http://highearthorbit.com/lessons-learned-from-neogeography-applied-to-gis/comment-page-1/#comment-230973 Terry Tue, 03 Mar 2009 18:08:18 +0000 http://highearthorbit.com/lessons-learned-from-neogeography-applied-to-gis/#comment-230973 While I agree that cartography is not quite 'lost' (pun intended), I don't believe we have GIS to thank for it. I don't think there's a single GIS package out there that packs the necessary graphic cojones to produce exceptional cartographic work. There's a lot of great cartographic work being done out there, and while much of it has its genesis in GIS, it needs post-processing in one of the graphic powerhouses to push it into the realm of good cartography. While I agree that cartography is not quite ‘lost’ (pun intended), I don’t believe we have GIS to thank for it. I don’t think there’s a single GIS package out there that packs the necessary graphic cojones to produce exceptional cartographic work. There’s a lot of great cartographic work being done out there, and while much of it has its genesis in GIS, it needs post-processing in one of the graphic powerhouses to push it into the realm of good cartography.

]]> By: Jim http://highearthorbit.com/lessons-learned-from-neogeography-applied-to-gis/comment-page-1/#comment-230970 Jim Tue, 03 Mar 2009 17:27:09 +0000 http://highearthorbit.com/lessons-learned-from-neogeography-applied-to-gis/#comment-230970 I don't believe that Neogeography is going to water down formal GIS at all, and I think the presentation does an excellent job at showing how the two approaches are different, but share a similar goal. Geography and Interface Design both involve a good amount of social science, and I think it's good to keep that in mind when designing these systems. I've also noticed that while Neogeographical data can rarely be used in a formal GIS, formal GIS data can be applied to Neogeographical systems. So maybe this can help increase the marketability of formal GIS data. I don’t believe that Neogeography is going to water down formal GIS at all, and I think the presentation does an excellent job at showing how the two approaches are different, but share a similar goal.

Geography and Interface Design both involve a good amount of social science, and I think it’s good to keep that in mind when designing these systems.

I’ve also noticed that while Neogeographical data can rarely be used in a formal GIS, formal GIS data can be applied to Neogeographical systems. So maybe this can help increase the marketability of formal GIS data.

]]> By: Andrew http://highearthorbit.com/lessons-learned-from-neogeography-applied-to-gis/comment-page-1/#comment-230150 Andrew Fri, 27 Feb 2009 14:30:43 +0000 http://highearthorbit.com/lessons-learned-from-neogeography-applied-to-gis/#comment-230150 @brian - I gather you didn't actually check out my presentation. :) This was exactly the argument I made. That "loss of cartography" is a common criticism, but it is self-reflective (e.g. using bad defaults in ArcMap) and also being well addressed in the fast feedback loop of web mapping. Mapnik, EveryBlock, CloudMade, GeoCommons are just a very few of the projects and companies working on providing better cartographic tools and designs. What is important is for the traditional, professional cartographers to actually respect and learn from the interaction and usability design that is evolving around geospatial tools on the web and incorporate these into their own domains and tools. @brian – I gather you didn’t actually check out my presentation. :)

This was exactly the argument I made. That “loss of cartography” is a common criticism, but it is self-reflective (e.g. using bad defaults in ArcMap) and also being well addressed in the fast feedback loop of web mapping. Mapnik, EveryBlock, CloudMade, GeoCommons are just a very few of the projects and companies working on providing better cartographic tools and designs.

What is important is for the traditional, professional cartographers to actually respect and learn from the interaction and usability design that is evolving around geospatial tools on the web and incorporate these into their own domains and tools.

]]> By: Brian Timoney http://highearthorbit.com/lessons-learned-from-neogeography-applied-to-gis/comment-page-1/#comment-229786 Brian Timoney Thu, 26 Feb 2009 00:45:26 +0000 http://highearthorbit.com/lessons-learned-from-neogeography-applied-to-gis/#comment-229786 Andrew: I don't buy the linkage between neogeography and the "loss of cartography". For every default red google maps icon, there is an ArcMap hardcopy product clearly the fruit of a default color ramp. Further, GYM web maps clearly consider cartography and distinguishing characteristic: look how the "professional" GIS company upgraded the cartography on their own web service basemaps in the face of new competition. We all can distinguish an Excel chart that was clearly a "Next-->Next-->Finish" wizard job. And we can see the ArcMap equivalent. I would argue the very nature of wide distribution of online mapping will lead to an accelerated pace of cartographic upgrades. The web as a distribution platform for cartography combined with other data visualization contexts will give rise to a new visual grammars where the influences of folks like Tufte and Stephen Few will be mixing with recent work of Cindy Brewer, et al. In short, GISers are defensive enough about embracing the future, let's immediately grant them the false nostalgia of a past golden era of Robinson-inspired cartography. Brian Timoney Andrew:

I don’t buy the linkage between neogeography and the “loss of cartography”. For every default red google maps icon, there is an ArcMap hardcopy product clearly the fruit of a default color ramp. Further, GYM web maps clearly consider cartography and distinguishing characteristic: look how the “professional” GIS company upgraded the cartography on their own web service basemaps in the face of new competition.

We all can distinguish an Excel chart that was clearly a “Next–>Next–>Finish” wizard job. And we can see the ArcMap equivalent. I would argue the very nature of wide distribution of online mapping will lead to an accelerated pace of cartographic upgrades.

The web as a distribution platform for cartography combined with other data visualization contexts will give rise to a new visual grammars where the influences of folks like Tufte and Stephen Few will be mixing with recent work of Cindy Brewer, et al.

In short, GISers are defensive enough about embracing the future, let’s immediately grant them the false nostalgia of a past golden era of Robinson-inspired cartography.

Brian Timoney

]]> By: Chris Blow http://highearthorbit.com/lessons-learned-from-neogeography-applied-to-gis/comment-page-1/#comment-229646 Chris Blow Wed, 25 Feb 2009 10:03:35 +0000 http://highearthorbit.com/lessons-learned-from-neogeography-applied-to-gis/#comment-229646 I think your analysis of the needs is right on. There is an entire spectrum of the crisis metadata initiative (ushahidi, instedd) that is being led by the shared lessons of neogeography. I think your analysis of the needs is right on. There is an entire spectrum of the crisis metadata initiative (ushahidi, instedd) that is being led by the shared lessons of neogeography.

]]> By: amenity http://highearthorbit.com/lessons-learned-from-neogeography-applied-to-gis/comment-page-1/#comment-229544 amenity Tue, 24 Feb 2009 20:03:11 +0000 http://highearthorbit.com/lessons-learned-from-neogeography-applied-to-gis/#comment-229544 The presentation looks fantastic; I really like the parallels you've drawn between neo-geo and GIS. The presentation looks fantastic; I really like the parallels you’ve drawn between neo-geo and GIS.

]]> By: Andrew http://highearthorbit.com/lessons-learned-from-neogeography-applied-to-gis/comment-page-1/#comment-229519 Andrew Tue, 24 Feb 2009 16:31:23 +0000 http://highearthorbit.com/lessons-learned-from-neogeography-applied-to-gis/#comment-229519 @ross - no, the conference wasn't required that I'm aware of. I could probably do a voice-over at some point given enough interest and bribery in the form of grainy-beverages (though not after imbibing said bribes). :) @ross – no, the conference wasn’t required that I’m aware of.

I could probably do a voice-over at some point given enough interest and bribery in the form of grainy-beverages (though not after imbibing said bribes). :)

]]> By: Ross Karchner http://highearthorbit.com/lessons-learned-from-neogeography-applied-to-gis/comment-page-1/#comment-229516 Ross Karchner Tue, 24 Feb 2009 16:20:29 +0000 http://highearthorbit.com/lessons-learned-from-neogeography-applied-to-gis/#comment-229516 Is there audio (or video) of the presentation anywhere? Is there audio (or video) of the presentation anywhere?

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