Comments on: Why the iPhone doesn’t need GPS

By: FireEagle :: High Earth Orbit

FireEagle :: High Earth Orbit — Wed, 05 Mar 2008 22:45:25 +0000

[...] explained before why the iPhone doesn’t need a GPS, and FireEagle makes this especially true. In the end, I just want it to be easy for me to share [...]

By: Andrew Grill

Andrew Grill — Wed, 23 Jan 2008 00:28:11 +0000

Andrew, just discovered this post and I totally agree.

See my post at http://blog.andrewgrill.com/blog/_archives/2008/1/20/3476974.html

which also addresses this issue.

Ps - notice you are also using Dopplr.

Regards,
Andrew Grill

By: Upgraded Maps in Firmware 1.1.3 still needs some work

Upgraded Maps in Firmware 1.1.3 still needs some work — Thu, 17 Jan 2008 21:19:03 +0000

[...] some argue that consumers don’t really need GPS, they just need to know roughly where they are, and for that the far less accurate geolocation (as [...]

By: High Earth Orbit » Blog Archive » My N95 - Applications, uses, and should haves

Thu, 30 Aug 2007 03:43:24 +0000

[...] In my earlier post I explained why a mobile device was better providing a web app integration environment rather than a ‘native’ application. But, because I’m a geek, I currently use the N95 (and it has ‘uses’). [...]

By: Henri Bergius

Henri Bergius — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 13:27:42 +0000

Obviously something like GeoClue would be useful also to non-Linux devices like iPhone. It would allow seamless positioning using multiple different backends like GPS, Plazes or whatever.

http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/GeoClue

By: Ryan Sarver

Ryan Sarver — Thu, 09 Aug 2007 10:58:56 +0000

@Andrew. I can only speak from the WiFi side of things, but your post is pretty dead-on. We look at our technology in two ways.

First we can augment GPS where it has inherent and known issues — things like indoor positioning, time to first fix and urban canyons. And just to be very clear, moving APs are not really an issue for us in coverage areas. As you pointed out we typically see 10-12 APs in a median scan, so even if 5 or 6 of them have moved we have more than enough information to determine an accurate location.

Secondly, we can add location to devices where GPS is currently unavailable or where GPS might be too costly. This includes laptops, WiFi-only devices like the W10 or the N800 and especially devices like the iPhone where they have already made an investment in mapping and WiFi.

@Joe Mobile — to your point, no single location technology delivers the ultimate experience. We believe strongly in fusing together multiple technologies to deliver the best experience to the user. But to be clear, our technology is more than accurate enough to deliver turn-by-turn directions in our coverage areas and helps deliver location where most location bases services are used — in urban areas. In terms of WiFi and battery life, this is also a misnomer. It is mostly up to the application and OS how WiFi is managed. A typical location lookup using WiFi takes under a second, then the adapter can be turned off. Whereas with GPS it may scan for a number of minutes if not indefinitely if you are indoors or in an urban area — thus draining your battery much more.

By: Andrew

Andrew — Wed, 08 Aug 2007 17:26:49 +0000

@Joe Mobile - I’ve seen what the carriers use for tracking, and they can pinpoint - at least in a city, where you are within several meters - they use it for finding dead-spots in urban areas in order to install better coverage.

You also poo-poo “local search” yet this is an incredibly powerful thing. And I would argue not many people use their N95 for turn-by-turn directions. For one, I would find the small screen and difficult interaction very distracting when using while driving. It would help with a passenger - but better would be an “mobile phone car system” that you plugged in that had GPS and connected to a larger, touch-screen, in-car screen display.

WiFi Geolocation works fairly well, judging by my experiences with Loki, Navizon, et al. And as more wifi routers are put online, moving 1 or 2 of 10 doesn’t have a large effect.

Really, if my iPhone by default showed me a map of South-East Michigan instead of San Francisco, I’d be fairly happy.

Oh, and I forgot to mention IP-Geolocation. Typically really bad for GSM data connections, but with some effort by the carrier (AT&T) they could expose this information to an API.

Anyways, my point was, users (and more-so bloggers/media that definitely should know better) that are complaining need to really think about what they want - and then how they can have it now instead of lamenting about what the next version may have.

By: Joe Mobile

Joe Mobile — Wed, 08 Aug 2007 17:13:47 +0000

Andrew, I agree with a few of your points, but the current iPhone does not have good “geolocation” options. Cell ID (cell towers, as you called them) is only accurate within 100-300 meters. And less in rural areas where towers are more spread out. Not good for anything except local weather and local search. Certainly not for turn-by-turn directions. As for WiFi, it only works in densely populated areas where there are lots of access points. Definitely bad for navigation. Not to mention, people sometimes move their WiFi routers and your location can be screwed up. This approach will be great when WiMAX rolls out, but not yet. Finally, WiFi will kill your batter much faster than GPS.

By: Allan Doyle

Allan Doyle — Wed, 08 Aug 2007 16:06:44 +0000

I’m holding out for the bluetooth device that combines GPS, inertial navigation, wifi location, etc. yet still sends NMEA compatible info…

By: Tom Printy

Tom Printy — Wed, 08 Aug 2007 12:38:04 +0000

While I don’t have either phone I don’t think that one solution will always work. I think that having a GPS receiver in the phone and using wifi and using cell tower triangulation is best. While the last two would work great in urban areas where there is a lot of cell towers and perhaps a lot of wifi hotspots, in the country these solutions might not work. There might not be 3 cell towers to triangulate a location or enough wifi to do the same. So the phone should be smart enough to figure out which option would be the best to sense it’s location. It should opt for the lower powered solutions then only enable the GPS if it absolutely needs too. Of course it could be a little less agressive on the GPS side of things to save battery life. I have a Motorola i415 that can get a signal in under 30 seconds in the clear and is pretty decent on battery life however it only gets a new fix when I ask it to.

By: Jeffrey Johnson

Jeffrey Johnson — Tue, 07 Aug 2007 22:45:02 +0000

Let me also register my dissatisfaction with the GPS capabilities of the N95. What a mess standing around waiting for a signal in order to take a picture, and we are trying to do repetitive photos with a moving … flying device And what a mess with the symbiansigned devcert process to get access to the location requestor API. But, as you, I live for this pain

What progress (if any) is anyone making on doing gsm/wifi based geolocation on the iPhone? I haven’t read anything yet, but am keeping up with the latest hacks. Better yet, why cant we figure out how to use a bluetooth gps with it if we want.